Single Women

Talk of the Nation (NPR) - June 1, 1998 – Transcript.

LYNN NEARY, HOST: This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Lynn Neary sitting in for Ray Suarez.

OK, so when I told a friend of mine that I was going to be hosting TALK OF THE NATION and they wanted me to do a show on being single in the '90s, there was a long pause. And then she said: "well, if I were single and I were listening to a show about being single, I'd want the host to be single." Which of course, I took to mean that I am simply too old to be doing such a show. And this is supposed to be a friend.

Well just in case anyone is wondering, I was single well into my 30s, which was not that long ago, though I'm not going to tell you just how long ago it was. Anyway, I don't really believe the single life has changed all that much in the interim and I know men haven't.

I mean the "I just can't seem to commit" kind of guy has been around for a long time, you know.

So anyway, I'm simply not going to apologize for being a smug married. Besides, I'm way too old to be smug. So I'm just going to forge ahead and introduce my guest, who is the current reigning authority on the single life, having authored a book on the subject which is already a bestseller in Britain and is just now hitting the bookstores in this country.

The book is "Bridget Jones's Diary," a novel about a very funny young 30-something singleton who lives in London and is obsessed about both calories and men. The author is Helen Fielding and she joins us now from the BBC broadcasting house in London. Welcome, Helen.

HELEN FIELDING, AUTHOR, "BRIDGET JONES'S DIARY": Thank you.

NEARY: And of course, if you would like to join us, our number in Washington is 1-800-989-8255. That's 1-800-989-TALK.

Well Helen Fielding, you are a publishing phenomenon. One million books sold in Britain and just hitting the bookstores here in the United States. So, let's introduce some of our listeners to Miss - Ms. Bridget Jones. Who is this Bridget Jones and where did this character come from?

FIELDING: Well, Bridget is a single 30-something living in a city on a permanent doomed quest for self-improvement. And she is tortured continually by smug marrieds - not like yourself I assume - who are constantly asking her why she isn't married yet and how her love life is, and minding the ticking of a biological clock.

If you like, I could read you a couple of her New Year's resolutions, which might give you an idea of what she's working towards.

NEARY: Let's hear some.

FIELDING: She starts the year saying: "I will stop smoking; drink no more than 14 alcohol units a week; go to the gym three times a week, not merely to buy sandwich; form functional relationship with responsible adult; and learn to program a video." (LAUGHTER) "I will not fall for any of the following: alcoholics, workaholics, commitment-phobics, people with girlfriends or wives; misogynists; megalomaniacs; chauvinists; or perverts. I will not sulk about having no boyfriend, but develop inner poise and authority and sense of self as a woman of substance, complete without boyfriend, as best way to obtain boyfriend." 

NEARY: Of course, that's where the book begins - with all those resolutions - and we won't - we won't tell everybody whether she lives up to any of those resolutions or not. (LAUGHTER) But let us talk first about the question of - of her calorie-counting, which is really - I must say to everybody, approach this book with a good sense of humor because it really is funny. And she - this is a woman who weighs herself every five minutes.

FIELDING: Yes, well the thing is - the book is a bit of an exaggeration.

NEARY: A bit.

(LAUGHTER) FIELDING: I was actually asked - I was asked to write a column. I was working as a journalist on the Independent newspaper in London and I'd written a first novel; was trying to write another. And they asked me to write a column as myself. And I thought that was just hideously embarrassing so I thought I would make up a rather exaggerated version of myself. But the trouble is, everyone just thinks she's me anyway, which is worse than it would have been in the first place.

NEARY: Well, how much of the character - give us a sense - how much of the character really is based on your own life?

FIELDING: I'll tell you what happens. I - I wanted to create a sort of generic single girl living in the city, so she has her real family, mum and dad who live outside the city; and then she has her urban family, who are in many ways much more like a family than the blood family. She's got her gay friends, her single friends, her smug married friends. And I just look at the life I see around me and take bits from my life and bits from other people's lives with their permission, and try to make a comedy out of that situation.

NEARY: Well how much do you see Bridget - how much do you see her as a sort of a an icon of singleness? I mean, how much do you think she really does reflect the reality of what it's like to be single in the '90s?

FIELDING: When I first started writing, it was very un-self-conscious, and I assumed I would be sacked after six weeks because it all seemed so trivial. But it's astonished me the way people - women really, of all ages - have taken to it. It's horrified me in a way. And I think what it is is it's - women are often presented in fiction as rather perfect, groomed creatures. And what this does, it peeks behind the curtains at all those insecurities and worries and wild ambitious that we all have and so seldom live up to.

NEARY: Now, why did it horrify you? Why did it horrify you that women are responding to this?

FIELDING: Well, I'm not sure I really mean "horrify." It was actually very reassuring. But I think, I don't know - we're all fed with so many images of how women are supposed to be. We're supposed to be thin. We're supposed to be beautiful. We're supposed to be independent. We're supposed to have jobs and handsome husbands and children and be perfect cooks. And there sometimes comes a point where you think: I can't do all that. And you sort of think, if you're not perfect, then you're a complete disaster. And I - I find it very reassuring that so many women identify with that feeling and enjoy laughing about it and thinking, oh well, as Bridget says after a wild night out: "oh never blurry mind." 

(LAUGHTER) NEARY: You know, I couldn't help but sort of trying to imitate the style at the beginning of the show, and I noticed the New York Times reviewer sort of did the same thing. It's - it's a hard thing not to get tempted to imitate your - imitate the style you've chosen to write in to create Bridget, and that is this sort of - well, the diary, first of all, why did you choose to write it as a diary?

FIELDING: I once heard the writer Muriel Spark say: "if you want to write well, you should write as if you're writing a letter to a friend." And I find it so much easier to write freely and in a funny way if I'm writing in the first person, as if it is a secret diary. So you're not thinking: "oh my God, what is the entire nation going to think of this?" You're thinking: "well, is my friend Tracy going to laugh at it?" And that's why I chose to do it that way. And there's a sort of intimacy to it, I think.

NEARY: Could you read something else from the book? Do you have another...

FIELDING: Sure.

NEARY: ... selection there?

FIELDING: Yeah. Oh no, in a true Bridget Jones manner, my page marker has gone out. They'll just be a slight...

NEARY: You've lost your place.

FIELDING: Here we go.

NEARY: All right, in the meantime ... OK, go ahead.

FIELDING: I've got it.

Monday the 17th of April; 8st 13; alcohol units, six - drowning sorrows; cigarettes, 19 - fumigating sorrows; calories 3,983 - suffocating sorrows with fat; positive thoughts, one - Fiji; completely exhausted. Surely it is not normal to be revising for a date as if it were a job interview. Since leaving work, I have scratched my naked body for seven minutes with a stiff brush, cleaned the flat, filled the fridge, plucked my eyebrows, skimmed the papers - I'm the ultimate sex guide, put the washing in, and waxed my own legs. My back hurts, my head aches, and my legs are bright red and covered in lumps of wax. Wise people will say that Daniel should like me just as I am, but I'm a child of cosmopolitan culture; have been traumatized by supermodels and too many quizzes; and know that neither my personality nor my body is up to it if left to its own devices. I can't take the pressure. I'm going to cancel and spend the evening eating donuts in a cardigan with egg on it.

(LAUGHTER) NEARY: That's a good one. The other part of her that I - makes me laugh out loud; made me laugh out loud as I was reading the book was her really pathetic attempts at cooking.

FIELDING: Yes, now that is one that - that rather comes from life, I'm afraid. It's the question of over-ambition, really. I bought a very elaborate cook book and I was going to make this beautiful soup and a orange comfit. But I made the stock for the soup with bones and I'd only got blue string to tie them up with; so it turned the soup blue.

NEARY: Oh that's a real story. You really did that, huh?

FIELDING: Actually, that did happen, yeah. And then, I couldn't be bothered to wait for the orange comfit to cook, so I thought oh, I'll leave it in overnight. This will be fine - very tender. And then when I took it out, it was marmalade, basically.

NEARY: Now, Bridget actually serves it to her guests, who inform her that it's marmalade.

FIELDING: Yeah, yeah, that's right.

NEARY: All right. We are talking about the book Bridget Jones's Diary, with author Helen Fielding. And we're talking about being single in the '90s here on TALK OF THE NATION.

The number is 1-800-989-8255. That's 1-800-989-TALK. And the book Bridget Jones's Diary is hitting bookstores in this country today, and I understand, by the way, Helen, that they're going to be giving out chocolates at bookstores to honor Bridget Jones.

FIELDING: Oh, I hope they give me some.

NEARY: 'Cause that's one of her vices - one of her many vices.

FIELDING: Yeah.

NEARY: Let's go to a caller. Scott is on the line from Manhattan. Welcome to TALK OF THE NATION, Scott.

CALLER: Hi, how are you? I'm - write a column also for the Daily News website about being single. I'm 37. I live in Manhattan; been proposed to four times; have a wonderful - two wonderful relationships going on with younger men; and I'm a smug single.

(LAUGHTER) FIELDING: I'll bet you're a smug single. Did you say two relationships with younger men?

CALLER: Yes. And they're both very wonderful, intelligent, exciting people. And I just look around me and I have to say out of all the married people that I see, there may - there's one out of about a 100 that I would like to be a part of the relationship. It seems to be fraught with compromise, with - it just - I - they stop having fun. And I think when you stop having fun, you stop living.

NEARY: Well now Scott's attitude, I think, is a little different from Bridget's 'cause Bridget's kind of obsessed with getting married, I think, isn't she?

CALLER: Right. That's one of the reasons I wanted to call because I feel like there's this stereotype that women are somehow - have always, you know, tried to live down, that we were desperate to grab that man; that we need to have a man to make ourselves happy, real, you know, full human beings. And I just - I mean I have many, many friends - probably, I could - 15 close friends that are over 30 and, you know, under 50 that are very single and very happy and successful.

You know, they're all - they're writers; they're producers; they're directors. And you know, it's not - I mean, I'm sure - I know I live in an insular world - Manhattan is nothing like the rest of the universe, really, but it's - we're all very, very happy people and we're not scraping around. I mean, we do talk about men. We go out with men. We love men. But you know, they're fun.

FIELDING: I would absolutely agree with you and say hurrah to that, because I think one of the things Bridget's struggling with in the book is that single women don't have an identity. I think, especially perhaps in - out of the big cities, there's a sort of throwback to the old days, where if you were single beyond your 30s, there'd been some horrible mistake somewhere along the line.

CALLER: Right.

FIELDING: And when Bridget's asked: "why aren't you married?" She feels like saying well actually because underneath my clothes, my entire body is covered in scales. She thinks that's what people are implying. And I think - I mean, I absolutely agree with you. I think it's just a different way of living and it's great if people stop pitying us and making films like "Fatal Attraction" which say: "if you're not married at 36, you're going to murder other people's husbands and boil their children's rubbers."

NEARY: But isn't it interesting...

CALLER: ... yeah, there just aren't many films or any - even television, I mean, all the women on the singles shows, they always seem to be chasing a boyfriend down. You know, it's almost insulting, really to...

FIELDING: Yeah, I mean, I think the thing is that everybody likes to be in love, and it's a normal human impulse to mate.

CALLER: Sure, yes. No, there's nothing wrong with love. No.

FIELDING: No, exactly.

CALLER: No. I mean, actually you know, and I grew up on a farm in southern Virginia, so every time I go home, all of my relatives are: "well, so, have you found yourself a man yet."

FIELDING: Yeah.

CALLER: And you know, it's like: "oh, I wasn't really looking for one. Are they lost?" 

(LAUGHTER) NEARY: Well thanks for calling, Scott.

CALLER: Thank you.

NEARY: That sounds very close to Bridget's experience - that going home and...

FIELDING: It does.

NEARY: ... having the family, you know, say "where's the husband" and always trying to fix her up; they're always trying to fix her up.

FIELDING: They are. I'm sure Bridget would love to have two younger men, though.

(LAUGHTER) NEARY: Yes, she would have a lot to write about that in her diary. But it's interesting, I think, this whole question of - what was just - Scott just raised the whole question of women being portrayed as being miserable when they're single. Of if not miserable, yearning for marriage. And I think that's - I think that's kind of an interesting thing to think about. Because women have responded so much to this, are they responding to the fact that it does reflect what's real about their life in that they do have that yearning, even if they don't want to admit it? Or, what do you think it is they're responding to there?

FIELDING: I think it's the tension of being a woman in this day and age because one of the things I tried to show in the book was that the grass is always greener on both sides of the fence. Bridget's got a friend Magda, who is a smug married, and Magda envies Bridget's freedom and the fact that she can lie in bed on Sunday morning and she doesn't have to mop up porridge and change nappies and so on. And Bridget sometimes envies Magda's security and the fact that she's got someone coming home who loves her. But then Magda's husband starts having an affair. So you can see both sides of it, and women are trying to do everything and have everything. And you can't.

NEARY: We're talking with Helen Fielding. She's the author of Bridget Jones's Diary. If you'd like to join us, call 1-800-989-8255. That's 1-800-989-TALK.

And Angeline in Meridian, Texas, welcome to TALK OF THE NATION.

CALLER: Hi - hello. Yes, I'm just turned 30 and I'm single and I've always been single. And every wedding that I have been to in my adult life, the people are now divorced. I don't know any couple that is still married. And I am grateful to not have a string of exes and a string of children behind me at this time. And I agree quite a lot with the last caller, that it's almost - it's almost insulting to insinuate that these women are not complete and are not whole because they're not married.

FIELDING: I completely agree with you. I mean, I've got lots and lots of friends who are single in London. And we lead very full emotional lives, and you know, this is what I was trying to show in the book with your urban family. The relationships you have with your friends can be just as rich and more - many - than with a spouse. And I think it's great if people can start to recognize that there's nothing wrong with being a single person. And it's a lot of fun and it's - it doesn't mean you're selfish or there's something wrong with you. You can have a great life and a very loving life.

NEARY: Now Angeline, are you saying that most of the people whose weddings you've gone to are around your age - that is, around 30, and they're already divorced?

CALLER: Yes. I am - from the ages - oh, I say when I was 20 to 26 and all of my friends were getting married in those ages, and I was feeling very left out, and was at the time very distraught about being single - all of those people are divorced. The last couple just divorced a couple of months ago.

FIELDING: Do you feel like a smug singleton?

CALLER: All of them. So at 30, they're divorced, their marriages aren't lasting five years.

NEARY: Mm-hmm. Do you feel - so you don't feel much of that tension we've been talking about - that tension that's sort of, you know, you're pretty comfortable with your life, but you still feel as though others are looking at you as if perhaps there's something wrong. Do you still feel that tension?

CALLER: At this point, actually I think, you know, with the divorce that seems so rampant and everything, I think people are looking at me as though I'm the smart one. I have divorced friends that are looking at me, like "boy, if I hadn't gotten married; if I hadn't made a major life decision at the age of 24; if I had held out until I was 30, like you." And now that they're 30, 32, 33 - they're like "I would have made the decision to not get married; I would have made the decision to stay single, because now I have a string of ex's; I have problems seeing my kids." You know, they're looking at me with envy.

NEARY: All right. Well, thanks very much for calling, Angeline.

CALLER: Thank you.

NEARY: Mark in San Francisco. You're on TALK OF THE NATION.

CALLER: Oh, hi. I used to work for a - one of these singles dating things that sends people out to dinner, and it's right downtown San Francisco, so I didn't know if you'd had an experience with that industry, with - over in England.

FIELDING: No, I never have actually. I did once write a column about Bridget doing the small ads, which isn't exactly the same, but is a similar sort of thing. And she went on a date with someone called "Wild Boy" who had long dark hair and long eyelashes, but when she got there, she found a 65-year-old man with a strange, dyed black ponytail in a very tight, denim suit. So, she never did it again.

CALLER: Well, we had some situations. They weren't that extreme, but what I was asking was basically, I found out that people that were interviewing and stuff, they didn't really match people up like they said they would. And they were taking advantage of all of these older women that would come in and really are desiring to have a relationship, and it just - it just seemed awful.

FIELDING: Yeah, it does sound awful.

NEARY: What role did you play in all that?

CALLER: I would talk to the women and the men that would come in, and they would want to go out to, you know, have dinner together. And when I found out that they didn't even look - if someone would say, let's say for example, "I would like to go out with someone who doesn't smoke, let's say doesn't drink; you know, is in good shape." The people that would put them together, they don't even look at it. And it's a huge industry in this country and they're just taking advantage of so many people.

FIELDING: That's dreadful. Mind you, it's often the case that if you decide you want to fall in love with a certain type of person, the person you actually fall in love with is completely different.

So, maybe there was method in the madness.

CALLER: Yeah, and of course you'd get the 50-year-old guys who want to come in and they always want to date the woman who's 15 years younger. So the lady that called from New York I think is a very singular experience, and I hate to say it, but in a few more years, her story might change considerably.

FIELDING: Oh, I hope not.

CALLER: Well, I hope not too, but the reality of talking to hundreds and hundreds of people was that they really desire to be with someone, not to just be alone and - for the rest of your life. It's kind of a sad industry, and I hated to see people getting taken advantage of. So I'm glad that's not happening over in England, at least.

FIELDING: Well, I can't speak authoritatively on it, but I hope it isn't.

NEARY: Thanks very much, Mark. Thanks for your call.

CALLER: You're welcome. Bye.

NEARY: Actually, that is something that you - that you sort of bring out in Bridget's story. She says more than once "being single in your 30s is not the same as being single in your 20s." That it's a different - it's a different ballgame when you get into your 30s.

And that there's a greater degree of desperation attached to it.

FIELDING: Well, I'm not sure "desperation" is the right word. I think paranoia is perhaps more it. One thing she says at one point is that when you're in your 20s, you can go for two years and not go out with anyone and just think "oh, I haven't met anyone." But when you're in your 30s, you get more self-conscious about it and so do the men. Everyone is more self-conscious about dating. And it becomes - can become like a game of sort of bluff and double-bluff because everyone's trying to date by all these rules. Everyone's got a different set of rules from each other, so it's quite possible for two people who really like each other to want to go out with each other, but being so protective of themselves that they never actually manage it.

NEARY: Well, one thing we really haven't talked about with regards to Bridget is that while she's obsessing on men and calories and all that, she's really also trying to get a career off the ground. That's a whole other part of her story.

FIELDING: Yes, yes she is. And it's not helped by the fact that she falls in love with her boss.

(LAUGHTER) NEARY: Not the wisest career move, necessarily.

FIELDING: Not the wisest, no, unfortunately. But she starts off in publishing and then she moves into popular daytime television with a very louche boss who's always trying to make her do things in the most appalling taste. So, her career is not the most promising at the moment.

NEARY: Well, how much does she really want a career? I mean, how much do you think she really wants to be an independent woman? A self-sufficient independent woman with her own interesting work life? How important is that to a Bridget?

FIELDING: I think it is important and I think all the facets of her life are important to her. You know, whether it's getting her flat fengshui-ed; getting her work in order; getting her friendships right; getting her inner poise right. But in a way, she's a woman of the end of the '90s. There's so many different ideas around about how you could live. You could be a Buddhist or you could be Betty Crocker or you could get into fengshui or, you know, a wild career woman. And she's like a little magpie and she takes an idea from here one day and tries that; and then it doesn't work. And then she thinks, "oh well, I'll try another one." And I think this may be symptomatic of the confusion lots of people feel in this day and age, when you haven't got a prescribed way of living. There's no sort of clear religion or - I mean, depending on who you are, of course - but there's no clear rules in society about how you're supposed to live. And so many ideas coming at you from the media that you can get a bit confused, I think. Which is why she loves self-help books so much because they're full of different - different plans to fail at.

NEARY: We're talking with Helen Fielding. She's the author of Bridget Jones's Diary. I'm Lynn Neary. And you're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. The number here at TALK OF THE NATION is 989 - 1-800-989-TALK. And we're going to go to the phones now. Natalie in Portland, Oregon you're on TALK OF THE NATION.

CALLER: Hi. Good afternoon. It's a very interesting topic and I just happened to be here with my mother who's visiting from out of town, and she is - she's recently single and I'm - you know, I'm very curious about her ideas on all of this.

And I asked her, you know, "what is it like being 53 and being single after 20 years of marriage, raising three children, you know, and having one grandchild." And the comment that she made was very interesting in that she said for so many years, she spent her love and her thoughts for other people. She was loving other people. She was thinking for other people. And now, she's learning in the last five or so years since they were separated for a while and just recently divorced - she's learning to do that for herself. And I watch it and I hear it and I see it in her writing. We write e-mail often. And I think it's a process that she's going through at such a later time, when I feel like I went through it in my late 20s. I'm 31 now and engaged and feel, you know, very solid about my relationship. We met and spent a lot of time learning about each other before we, you know, jumped into anything. Which is something unusual and I think interesting about having relationships later on in your life.

NEARY: Well, it's interesting that you mention your mother, because in fact Bridget Jones's mother is suddenly single as well, although I don't think she sounds very much like your mother.

(LAUGHTER) FIELDING: Really, or my mother.

(LAUGHTER) CALLER: I'm sorry. I haven't read - I haven't read your work, so I don't know what her mother was like.

FIELDING: Well, I really wanted to create - I'm very interested in what you say, actually. I really wanted to create an older woman, who did start to deal with just those things that your mum is dealing with. And so, I gave Bridget a mother who decided to be single. So, she left Bridget's father and ran off with a Portuguese tour operator. But at the start of the book, she's talking about being in her 50s and feeling that the best of her life is over and, as you were saying about your mom, she's given everything to her children and her husband, and now they've all gone off and grown up and she's got nothing left for herself. And then, she becomes hideously empowered. I mean, it's all very exaggerated, but she gets a job as a TV presenter and gets this Portuguese lover and ends up making Bridget feel rather inadequate because she can't do any of these things. But I did want to create that positive image of an older woman finding herself.

NEARY: And - and she actually becomes a presenter on a television show that is - that's called "Suddenly Single" - isn't that the name of the show?

FIELDING: Suddenly Single - yeah. Exactly, and trying to force Bridget to come on it...

NEARY: And she's as exaggerated - she's as exaggerated as Bridget is.

You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. I'm Lynn Neary. My guest is Helen Fielding. We're going to take a short break right now.

My guest for the remainder of the hour is Helen Fielding, and she's the author of Bridget Jones's Diary. If you'd like to join us on TALK OF THE NATION, our number in Washington is 1-800-989-8255.

That's 1-800-989-TALK.

And I'm wondering, Helen, if you've found your placemark in your book, could we maybe do one more reading from the...

(LAUGHTER) FIELDING: Yes, I'll - I'll do a bit more, which is when Bridget's just been to a smug marrieds dinner party, and comes home very miserable, having spent a whole evening being asked why she's not married yet. And she calls her friends Shazzer, and Shazzer rants as followed: You should have said "I'm not married because I'm a singleton, you smug, prematurely aging, narrow-minded morons," Shazzer ranted, "and because there's more than one way to live. One in four households is single, most of the royal family is single. The nation's young men have been proved by surveys to be completely unmarriageable. And as a result, there's a whole generation of single girls like me with their own incomes and homes who have lots of fun and don't need to wash anyone else's socks." "We'd be as happy as sunboys if people like you didn't conspire to make us feel stupid just because you're jealous." "Singletons," I shouted happily, "hurrah for the singletons."

(LAUGHTER) NEARY: I have a question here that came in from the - the Internet, came in by e-mail, about singles, and children, and you didn't really get into this. I'm not sure that this is something you can answer, but it - it says, "what about singles with children? Do you know if they - does your research show them to be as happy and emotionally fulfilled as some of these people are saying they are" - some of the people who are calling in, I guess?

Is that anything you've written or thought about? In terms of this...

FIELDING: No, Bridget at one point does have a pregnancy scare, and she has the weird push me/pull you emotions of a man and a woman both at the same time, so on the one hand, she's thinking, how lovely - and imagining herself in a Calvin Klein advert, throwing the baby in the air and being all glamorous, and then she's thinking that won't fit into any of her trousers anymore, and she won't be able to go out with the girls, and no one will fancy her.

And so, it touches on it, but I think that's probably for a later volume.

NEARY: Well let's go to a gentleman, David, in St. Paul, Minnesota. Welcome to TALK OF THE NATION.

CALLER: Yes. Thank you. I'm just wanting to get rid of this myth that men are so commitment-averse, I'm really tired of hearing it. It's terribly irritating to hear. I can't imagine - I can't think of how many times I've been kind of put off and basically dumped by women who thought that I was getting too serious, and, you know, women that basically, you know, insisted upon wanting to date like three or four other people while we were dating.

I don't think that - I don't think that it's a really reasonable, rational argument that men are somehow to be blamed entirely for Ms. Jones's problems. I think that, you know, I'm 41, most people think that I'm about 28, because I look like I'm about 28, I got carded about four years ago, and I just see - and I am single, and I'm looking for one person.

And I usually go into any kind of nascent relationship letting that person know that I'm looking for one person; that I don't want to date three or four other people; I want to find somebody that I can give my basically undivided attention. And I'm really tired of hearing that men are the ones that, you know, decide they want to, you know, be bad and all that.

If women are attracted to bad boys, then surprise, surprise, they're gonna act bad sooner or later. If you're attract - you know, the nice guys who always are accused of finishing last are - finish last because women are attracted to bad boys, and then they get their just desserts, so...

NEARY: Well you know, I think you've got a point there, especially in terms of this character, because she is, isn't she, really attracted to the wrong kind of man? And...

FIELDING: Well, she learns in the end. She ends up with a - oh, I shouldn't give the ending away, but her mother's encouraging her to go out with a man who sounds rather like David in fact. And she does see the light in the end, but I think there's a lot of truth in what you say, that there is an allure of the - the bad boy. And also, I think, I mean, Bridget doesn't actually particularly blame men, she tends to blame herself for her problems. She's not particularly bitter. But I think there is a lot of truth in the fact that, as men and women get older and they develop fuller personalities, it is harder for them to get together with...

NEARY: It's harder for both sexes.

FIELDING: Yeah. You can marry anyone when you're 18, probably, because you're so unformed, and that is when aspects of modern life, people do leave it later to marry, and then they're much more complicated people and it makes the job of finding someone that fits a more complicated job.

NEARY: Well, thanks for calling, David. That was a good point and I want you to tell you that you're the first man that has called this afternoon to this show.

CALLER: No, I thought Mark called earlier.

NEARY: Oh, OK. He did. I'm sorry.

CALLER: That's all right.

NEARY: I've already forgotten. I feel terrible about that. All right, thanks for calling, David.

CALLER: Thank you. Bye.

NEARY: OK. Jennifer in Seattle, Washington. You're on TALK OF THE NATION.

CALLER: Yeah, I think he raised a good point. I think, you know, women as well as men make sometimes unrealistic expectations of what they want, you know, from someone in a relationship. I'm in my late 20s and I'm - I happen to be very happily married. I think I got one of the last good ones out there.

NEARY: Uh-oh, a smug married we have on the line now.

(LAUGHTER) FIELDING: Ooh.

CALLER: But I think a lot of my friends are not willing to settle. You know, I think that although we still live in a fairly male-dominated society where we'll always looking for the male's approval, I think a lot of my friends aren't willing to just take someone who comes along because he, you know, fits some of the things. I don't think it's being too picky, I just think men are wanting more. And I think what's actually is going to have to happen is we're going to have to start raising another generation - you know, the next generation of men are going to have to start fitting that bill a little better. I don't think women are going to be willing to settle for just - because they don't need a man to necessarily pay the bills or fit some of those other, you know, requirements anymore.

So, I don't know.

NEARY: Well, thanks for calling Jennifer. I actually think Jennifer has a good point there in the sense that ...

FIELDING: Yeah, I do too.

NEARY: ... I think a woman's - you know, a woman's life is more complicated by the fact that she has that ability to be independent - financially independent, and yet as many people have said, there is that longing for relationship. And it's a complicated balance. We all know that it's a complicated balance to find, I think.

FIELDING: Yes, and I think, you know, Bridget has got quite a lot of links with Jane Austen. I based the plot on "Pride and Prejudice." And in some ways, times are very similar to Jane Austen's day and women's preoccupations are the same in some ways. But what is different is economic power now, and that a woman can make a very good life for herself on her own in every sense.

And so, there is a lot more to give up. And I think probably what's happening is lots of women are not prepared to compromise and not prepared to be with someone who is unkind to them or doesn't get on with them or whatever. And that's the reason perhaps why there are many more single women than there were.

But they're still looking for an identity, which is why I'm pleased to find the word "singleton" rather than "spinster," which has all sorts of connotations, as Bridget puts it, "spinning wheels and dying alone in a very small flat and being found three weeks later half-eaten by an Alsatian."

NEARY: That's right. Just continuing the Jane Austen thought.

At moments, Bridget Jones is a little bit like the character in "Clueless" about 15 years later, I think.

FIELDING: Oh, I loved that film so much. When she's walking along thinking deep thoughts about life and she walks past a shop and says: "ooh, I wonder if they've got that in my size."

(LAUGHTER) NEARY: Yeah, that's a little - very Bridget Jones, I think.

FIELDING: Yeah.

NEARY: Liz in Cleveland, Ohio, welcome to TALK OF THE NATION.

CALLER: Hi. How ya doing?

NEARY: Good.

CALLER: I was in my car traveling and I heard your show and I just had to stop and call. First of all, I'm calling about two comments. I'm single. I've never been married. I've had a lot of proposals, but I'm in my late 40s. I'm going to be celebrating my birthday this week.

And I'm the type of person - I'm very aggressive. I'm very independent. A lot of my friends are married, but a lot of my other friends and even relatives are all divorced. And I feel that a lot of men nowadays - they're, you know, very picky, selective, as I am myself.

But a lot of people are tending to be more happy, settled in the way they're living, and they're wiser and smarter and they just say: "well, I would rather just be alone. I'd be happier than being married and miserable." But you know, when you're single, you know, your friends can kind of comfort you and you have great times and you're happy just being content in that aspect.

But then I think there's a stigma also that, you know, boy why aren't you married? Like if there's something wrong with you.

But number two, what I'm really calling about, and I'm really irritated about this subject because I think more political - more people in the political area can really maybe relate to what's going on nowadays - there is a lot of discrimination with women and probably maybe men, over 40 years old, because I'm going through it right now, where a lot of employers see that you're single, you're not married. I had one employer ask me: "well, gee, aren't you a housewife? What does your husband do for a living? Why - you know - why not? I mean, why this?" I mean, it's like they're discriminating because you're not married and then you're separated or singled out like you're some kind of a disgrace to the society. And also, they try to judge you, well, you're a woman and you're not making as much money as, say, a man at your certain age. There's a big thing with discrimination when you're over 40, and especially when you're single 'cause I'm going through it.

NEARY: I'm just wondering how you handle some of these things. Like, I mean, if somebody sort of questions you about not being married - I mean, how do you - how do you answer them? How do you handle it?

CALLER: Well, I have to support myself. I have a - well, basically I'm in a predicament where I'm a head of a household, so I'm in a different situation. But, it's like a lot of these employers don't understand that and they look at you like you have to be married to work here. And I mean, right now...

NEARY: Really? That's interesting to me. I mean, why would they think that?

CALLER: I don't know, but I have a lot of complaints with the Ohio Civil Rights Commission right now that I'm going through this, not on that, but basically with age discrimination. But also singling me out because I am single and I'm not married. And - and I've had a lot of jobs where I wasn't chosen because of that; that basically.

NEARY: Hmm. That's interesting. I don't know, Helen, if you have any response to that or if that's something you've even thought about. Much of Bridget Jones's Diary is - is a humorous book; doesn't really deal that seriously with the issue of singleness, but I'm wondering if you have any...

FIELDING: No, I mean it's not a nice story and I'm very sorry to hear about that. I haven't heard about that sort of thing happening here, and it certainly seems deeply unfair, given the tales we've heard so many times today, so many marriages end in separation and so many people are single. It seems no justice in that at all.

NEARY: Mm-hmm. Helen Fielding is the author of Bridget Jones's Diary. I'm Lynn Neary. And you're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

We're discussing Bridget Jones's Diary and single women in the '90s with author Helen Fielding. The number here at TALK OF THE NATION is 1-800-989-TALK if you'd like to join us.

And Jay in Seattle, Washington...

CALLER: Hi, there.

NEARY: Hi.

CALLER: I think the whole issue, part of it deals with sex. The sexual revolution, I think, has put women in a very untenable position and everyone's talking about financial security and how women don't want to give that up, but from a guy's perspective - I'm a 32-year- old attorney and I happen to be a virgin - I don't view sex as something that's really my right to have until I get married.

And I think if more women felt that way, suddenly there'd be that incentive that men - just imagine if the entire nation - women weren't going to have sex 'til they got married, I bet there'd be a lot more marriages and I think people'd be a lot happier. What do you think about that?

NEARY: Hey, what do you think about that, Helen?

FIELDING: There's two parts of that. I bet there'd be a lot more marriages and I bet people would be a lot happier - I wonder if both those things are true, especially the second one.

NEARY: I bet there'd be a lot more marriages.

CALLER: I think, you know, would people be happier? Try this one on for size: I bet there'd - sexual disease would go down to zero if people were faithful. I bet unwanted pregnancies and unwanted children would go to zero.

I bet people's wanting to stray because they'd be thinking "well, she's not as good as this woman would" would go down to zero. Just imagine that. I think frankly it may seem a bit puritanical, and for me it's based on my Christian beliefs, but whatever one might want to base that on, I think frankly we'd have a much happier society on a whole.

NEARY: Do you find that women are surprised when you tell them how you feel about this?

CALLER: Kind of. (LAUGHTER) Yeah. But I know some women who feel the same way, and frankly they are the most desired women of the lot, because often people want what they can't have, and when somebody has something that they're holding out with, and that only one person's going to receive this great prize and gift, suddenly it's - this is just a central marketing strategy: they're seen as more desirable.

NEARY: Well Jay, that is a very interesting perspective on this discussion.

FIELDING: It is.

NEARY: And I thank you for calling. Let's see if we can get one more short call in. Wendy in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

CALLER: Hi. I've actually read Bridget Jones. I had a copy brought over to me from Ireland, and on a recent trip there, I bought about four or five copies and brought them back and distributed them among my friends here. We're all in our late 20s, and I found the book to be hysterical, but I thought it was interesting when I gave it to a friend of mine, she said that she spent pretty much every night reading it and ending up in tears because she was relating too much to the character. And I thought that that was an interesting response on her part, since I had read it in a completely different way.  And I guess I was mostly curious about the ending that you chose, and I know we're not supposed to talk about the ending, but I wasn't disappointed in the ending, but I think I was surprised. And I actually gave it to my boyfriend to read and he - he was disappointed in the ending. He kind of felt like Bridget should maybe spend some more time developing herself and her own independence, rather than...

NEARY: Well, I think - I have the feeling that option was there.

CALLER: Yeah.

NEARY: We won't go into details, but...

CALLER: Yeah, I don't...

(LAUGHTER) FIELDING: I would like to thank you for buying four or five copies; also to say that it's only the ending of this book, and there is a sequel. But it's interesting that you said you found it funny. I'm really pleased about that. But that your friend cried. Because the book just came out in Italy, and I wrote it very lightly, thinking it was just a funny book. It's only after you've written a book that you find out what it's about because everyone else tells you. But someone in Italy said that it was a "transcendental study of existential despair." So, there you are. I was very pleased to be so deep.

NEARY: Well, I think it's also - I don't know how much this has been written about - hasn't been written about that much yet in this country. I think we're going to be hearing a lot about it. But I imagine it's going to be criticized for being sort of anti-feminist. I mean, has that happened already and...

FIELDING: Yes, it did happen in Sweden. They were very worried what would happen if someone found the book in 100 years time and thought that all women were like this. But my answer to that is that I didn't write this book to be a statement about women. It started as a column. I wrote it to make people laugh. And if we have come so far as women, it's very interesting that you can't write a comic character who is a woman and you're a woman, without people taking it as hugely symbolic. I don't think anyone would take P.G. Wodehouse's Bertie Wooster and say that he was a sorry indictment on the state of manhood. So, that's what I think about that.

NEARY: All right, well thanks very much. That's all we have time for today. Helen Fielding is the author of Bridget Jones's Diary. She joined us from the BBC broadcasting house in London. 

In Washington, I'm Lynn Neary, NPR News.

© 1998 National Public Radio, Inc. All rights reserved.